Laura:

Greetings.  Kindly allow me to reply to discrete aspects of your most recent response regarding comments you’ve observed thus far about your story, “Them Nigger Days.”

Laura's Comment

"...what I got was defensiveness coming out and anger. 
I guess I thought I might be attacked on sentance [sic] structure or lingo, or tense."

Carol Elizabeth's Note

While I cannot speak for other 'responders to this story', for myself I must directly inform you that I am far from offended by your story.  I believe I noted a specific thinness of character development around the speaker's "lack of love for the word [nigger]."  All the story does is:  (a) give slight backdrop, (b) offer minimal character sketch(es); (c) lay out in summary fashion a race & class based mini-drama; and (d) tell us (without development) that the speaker is "bothered" by the troublesome n-word.  Okay....  where or when in the story are readers given even a hint of sense about 'why' the speaker is so bothered by "nigger," as a term of reference?

Laura's Comment

"I grew up hearing tales of the slaves my great great grandparents owned, and how that when they were freed, they stayed with my family, because they had been treated so well."

Carol Elizabeth's Note

Surely your experience, vis a vis 'master-slave relationship tales told to you by your forebears', imbues you with an insight which should enable you to tell a story, albeit about "Them Nigger Days," that demonstrates / depicts a greater degree of 'character' [as to Anne, Ellie, and folk on both sides of the 'tracks'] than what is offered in the 'story' as it presently appears.

Laura's Comment

"I do think it was unfair to attack my character, based on something that I tried to write.  It's a story."

Carol Elizabeth's Note

Having read each notation, I don’t see any specific ‘character attacks’ against you.  What is being attacked, throughout the discussion about “Them Nigger Days,” is the vituperative titular term, ‘nigger’.  Clearly, your story warrants relative discourse, being, as it is, peppered (pardon the slight pun) with such an action-packed word.  As a writer of the same, you must be prepared when the winds of inquiry begin to blow in your direction.

Laura’s Comment

"I really want this story to work…"

Carol Elizabeth’s Note

To be clear, this story, again, is not a novel (in the ‘new’ sense) presentation of what I earlier called:  a tale of  “ 'friendships', enemies, and disillusionment along the way toward 'growing up'… with a race-based dilemma in the mix.”  The extent to which it ‘does’ or ‘does not’ work neither rises nor falls with incorporation of the word ‘nigger’.  Instead, this story’s success shall rise or fall with the presence or absence of adequate ‘character development’, particularly from the speaker’s point-of-view (as well as that of Anne and Ellie).

Your articulated concerns about “sentance [sic] structure or lingo, or tense” are merely tangential to the substantive central point – which, necessarily, is the story (as written) on the whole [e.g., the characters, their concerns, development of each identity, the relationships at the core of the plot, the movement of the story from opening to close, and thematic dynamics.]

In closing, I agree with Lavonne W.'s most recent post:  discussion of "Them Nigger Days" contains elements of a "great debate."

Sincerely,

Carol Elizabeth Owens

laura, words only remain words with their original meaning if we choose to propogate them. if nobody ever used the word "nigger", eventually nobody would know what the word was or meant...we should be on the fighting side of destroying the word...because the word only lives on in our usage...if you hate it so badly, then do not propagate it, even if in the story you are trying to denounce it.
best
joseph

Destroying a word??? That comes perilously close to banning free speech!

Not what I meant Lavonne. Words only sustain their power if we continue to propagate that meaning whether intentions are good or not. The word should be destroyed, so far as the meaning of hate that surrounds it. I had NO thoughts of banning free speech when making that point however, derive what you will.

The idea of destroying a word is abhorrent to me----and we have enormous wealth, as a people, in our constitutional right to free speech-----however, choosing not to use a word seems as much a part of freedom of speech as  choosing to use that word----the bottom line being our freedom to choose, is that not so?

Michael

Destroy we must.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/01/AR2007050101743.html?hpid=topnews

At the risk of opening up an old wound, I offer a paraphrased bit of Lenny Bruce (who was also persecuted for blasphemous word choice):

"There's a difference between a great big piece of art with a little shit in the middle and a great big piece of shit with a little art in the middle.  If you don't understand the art, it's just one great big piece of shit."

I think it was a powerful emotional piece, Laura.  You took more of a chance than 95% of the writers on this site.  Thanks, Moskowitz

good for you, Moskowitz----it's the heart's intention that speaks, and I have since learned there's no racism in Laura's heart...

michael

 Hy, I have read and enjoyed this piece very much a few times now, and digested the following debate. A most accomplished and couragous  post, Laura,

I have also read all replies with interest, but am too new to freely pass my opinion, lol. Suffice to say I am of mixed descent, but basically Scottish (with a tan) and did live in LA for a few years in the early eighties. As the Californian sunshine darkened my normally lightly tanned complextion...I was constantly reminded that time was only 25 years on from the problems of civil rights and the events of Martin Luther King.
 LA was the last place I expected to find any residue of discrimination and I am quite sure it is 'still' evident, but one really has to be the victim to speak wth any great authority as to how much or how frequently it would arise in the most unexpected of situations. (Renting a condominium in a 'good' neighborhood and condusive to my families residence in the UK, finding all tables were reserved in a coffee shop, ladies moving their handbags to the other side of their person for fear of being robbed, standing in a line in Buffams to pay for an xmas gift to find others were served before me until I spoke and was then smiled at with the exclamation of "Gee Honey, your British!") We stretched the allowed three weeks in the Huntingdon Sheriton at companies expense into ten weeks, eventually renting from a Japanese chap, but we/I had found ourselves in a situation so unlike the other 'totally' white Brit families who joined the same company from the same block visa and found accomodation within the allocated time frame. I was not treated as a 'nigger' so much, not being that dark a skin colour, but was frequently regarded as a 'wetback', another derogative social tagging which robs one of equal status. 

 With both my interest and qualifications in social psychology, I really did enjoy this three page debate about such a sensitive subject, Laura, but was disappointed that so much of it did not crit your actual overall written content, concentrating more on the valid use of a word which is so branded into American history. As long as it is heard, it may remind and may amend. (If one were to write a piece on German war tactics...would the word Nazi be excluded, I don't think so). Your piece was more about human relationships and their encountered problems than only about racism.
Much admiration for your loyalty to your inspiration, which imo, was authentically presented in 'all' respects, Zydha

I think it there is a nice little piece hiding under all this debate.

Perhaps your character's position needs some clarity. Strip it down to its core - less is more. There are too many huge ideas you are trying to squeeze in here - for example repetition of the word for authenticity (which is why I think you used it, not to shock) would perhaps be ok if used with a steady head. But by adding -'that word still really bothers me' you are constantly bringing the story back to your current state of moral anquish.

I applaud your attempt to takle such a big subject in a short story. I think you would achive a much higher degree of effect if the narrator in the story was more detached - just saying it how it was. That doesn't mean you have to be detached from the emotion, just filter it. For the purpose of the story try to momentarily elminate the part of you that is so bothered by the word - the racism displayed by the characters in the tale is stong enough and doesn't need modern-you poking your head round the door every few lines to reassure us how you feel about it!

As for the title - I just feel it's a little clumsy - much like the use of the word throughout - not offensive to me, just.. clumsy. Others may well be offended - some people will never accept use of the word in any context. Personally I think art is there to ask questions and if that means using a word then so be it. But are you really asking enough questions with its use here? If used wisely you will do so. But if your use of the word can't match up to the level of debate that will fall from using it - then it's use appears clumsy... I do think there is room for it somewhere in this piece, but the voice needs to be alot stronger before the word begins to add rather than detract.

The classic twist at the end is the crux of the piece - focus on that. Whilst not a new idea - if done to good effect you will have a solid piece of emotive prose in your hands.

Since this one continues to be rearing from time to time, I appreciate all the comments of the last couple months.  It spiraled to a place of which I have not gone back to.  I guess the underlying concensus of it, is that there are pieces and parts worth saving to this work.  I have not gone back, though someday I will and try to make sense of where I lost it's form and content, on the things that need to change and move beyond.  I will get to it at sometime, when I am ready again to tackle the images that caused me to write it in the first place. 

For now, I let it lie still if it will.  Laura

I'd say the images are all there Laura! just needs some stripping to its bare essentials which won't take long at all. If you try to go back and deal with the emotions you had directly you'll end up too attached to it again - For me this piece contains all the ingredients you need - work at it like a sculpture.

Hi Laura,

I just read the story and the threads. The tale has
a powerful plot.  Its worth modifying.
I agree that you should take the word out of the title
but I don't think you should not use it.  The story is set in
the past, even in the recent past shit like that happens.
You should however be careful to put the word clearly into a
characters mouth and in context.  Its shock value
only works once, so don't keep repeating it.


Good story

e

Revisited this today... it has been good to be away from it for awhile....nearly 3 years. I am going to work on stripping it, and developing more of the characters and story line. When it is re-worked, I will post again. And, the title will change... Laura

I have no idea how to remove the title from the page... I would like for it to read, Untitled for rework.... Lavonne, someone, can you help??!!