I do not understand why so few people comment on the poems, while so many do read (or at least hit on) them.  At first I thought it was because many people were not members, but I see there are 840 members.  I assume any of them can post a comment merely by hitting "Post" (am I wrong?).  If that is true, there is nothing wrong with the way the site is set up.  Maybe there is no answer to this "problem."  I am certainly grateful when someone comments on my poem, and I do comment a bit on others' work, so I am still very glad to be in this Circle.

Jonathan.....

Want to see who is posting....

http://www.poetrycircle.com/index.php?action=mlist;sort=posts;start=0

and most probably those here, post elsewhere also.

So many pens looking for ears.

It would be nice if other members respond to your query as well.

summer smiles
silent lotus

Jonathan, I don't know why so many read and so few post, except that it may be hard to know what to say about poems.   I've had so much practice, it's easy -- though maybe my comments aren't profound -- but I remember a time back in my student days when I had no IDEA what to say about most poems.  Many people feel that just saying they liked a poem is lame.  I think it's valuable, though I would like to know what a person likes and why.

Good for you, J

This seems to be the norm everywhere these days. One easy to be negative about, or even somewhat paranoid over. I know I get like that sometimes. I think in the physical world, we see this type of thing in voting at elections — why do only a small percentage vote, when so much is at stake — we could be here forever on this and get nowhere. Save, perhaps, have an intriguing sociology thesis and a few bloody noses.

I came to the conclusion, that so long as the core is healthy and vibrant (one big happy family — yeah, right) a decent culture evolves. The pay-off being: "you feel good." Well, at least for the most part. I guess what I'm going on about down a short-cut, is "it's as good as it get's." Utopia it ain't, granted. But neither is it anarchic. Somewhere in the fog lies a little plural critter with poetic spots in want of love and attention — every post is another step in the right direction as far as I can see.

Sincerely

Dax 

The more obvious reason is perhaps that many poems are not interesting enough, or too complicated to elicit comment. Poetry, by definition, is a narrow band width in the broadcast of expression. To comment requires as much work as it does to craft an interesting poem. We are becoming averse to anything hard to do and to work, especially.

But also, and to Jonathon's point, many come to the sight to read. There is no pressure to comment. Those that choose to post are by inference asked to comment. I have read many things that I absolutely enjoy, but find no compelling reason to comment. If the poet is in need of affirmation of a certain work, send it to a journal. Maybe the question is what do we expect from the internet? How do you know we are not a bunch of pornographers trying our hand at respectability? Do you really trust what you read on Wikipedea?

larry

Most of those 800 members are not active members I don't think.....but I agree with Larry that "to comment requires as much work as it does to craft an interesting poem".  I am often searching back pages to find a poem that I have spent days thinking about - pinpointing where I feel it could be strengthened etc.....often to find it has been revised and I have to spend more time thinking about it......

I also sometimes feel overwhelmed at the amount of poetry being posted.....the more that poets post poem after poem....the less I can focus on one at a time.....so I know that quite a few slip through the cracks...

but I try to spend some time going backward and bringing poems back up to the front.....

the only advice I can give is that if you would like more people to post more comments.....encourage them to do so by posting as many as you can yourself and trying to spark interesting conversations.

xo M

ps.  I think that alot of the reads you see on each piece are either by people who are going back to reread the poem over (either for enjoyment or to think about possible comments) or they are readers who are not memebers, therefore they cannot leave a comment.  Everytime we revisit our own poem either to read comments or to revise etc.....  that counts as a read also!

I've read a few negative comments on other threads about comments that just say, "Well done." or "I like this."  So. I think there may be some members who refrain from commenting unless they can come up with something deep.

I think that if you like a poem, you can say so, even if it is only three words. It's a way to say "thank you" and "I'm here" to the poet but no one should feel obligated to comment; we are all here because we want to be here.

We speak because we want to speak and we listen because we want to listen.

I agree with much of what has been said here, and I'll just add a couple of observations:

• Participation levels on most Internet discussion areas run about 1% of those that bother to register--the majority will always consume, not contribute, for a variety of reasons, not least because contributing takes people out of their comfort zone.
• The previous observation notwithstanding, the opportunity that we, as poets, have to receive direct and sometimes copious feedback through a venue such as this is far preferable, I think, to what was the norm in the age before computers, when pieces would be published in little/literary magazines, and writers would almost never hear even one comment from readers.

Rick, you touched on one of my main concerns here: the art of criticism.  When I taught creative writing classes I found that the students had no idea how to critique their own or others' work though they did know some ways to write a poem.  I came to feel that in an ideal world, there should be a course in How To Critique A Poem which would be a pre-requisite to taking a college poetry writing course, or that one course should be called How To Critique And Write A Poem.

For me, I find it a great challenge to say something about a poem when I do not like the poem but can see that it is well written.  (I tried to teach my students that liking and judging are often separate and that it is OK for this to be true, but I have a hard time living up to it.)

One thing I have trouble with is for someone to rewrite my poem, even to suggest a word.  I much prefer them to tell me what they do not like and why and then leave it up to me to find a way to fix it if I agree.

LOL!  Well I know not to put any more of yours in my dondensation machine!  Sometimes I to am offended when pepole get in their and rearrange one of my poor poem's   internal organs.  Sometimes, though, I really like what they do.  That's why I never get huffy.  We're all different about the liberties we're comfortable with.

Rick

It's such a shame when a poem goes by without comments - good or bad. I agree with much of what has already been said. I think the number of new poems posted means that many do just slip through the cracks. The important thing I think, is to always try to comment on other people's work, rather than just posting your own. That's what makes this a circle rather than just a site for posting poetry.

B.

The other thing we could all try to do is encourage more poets and readers whom we know to sign up. Some of us are in a better position than others to help out in this way. If you're in school, a mention to peers or teachers could help. If you teach, encourage students to join. Certainly we have a lot more volume here than we used to, and more members could perhaps result in more comments.

[/quote]

Dear Jay

Thank you for this beautiful historical anecdote ......i bet there are some young poets here
who never got a hand written rejection note.....or for that matter a poem printed in letter press.

It would be interesting to know if poets who have been raised on a computer
have ever written a poem with a pencil.

What is life like when the sense of touch is only a keyboard ?


miles of smiles
silent lotus

"What is life like when the sense of touch is only a keyboard ?"

My friend Penny would love to comment on that subject, but she can't type:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1oa2YLaKC4

I'll ask a few dump truck drivers to join and the paving crew. They always have time on there hands and some, I believe, know full well what a chain gang is about 10/4

Ciao

Dax

Personally, sometimes I feel a bit intimidated to post a comment on the work of those who aren't in my peer group. I feel as if their judgment is better than mine. I agree with Jonathan, there is an art to criticism, and in school we are taught to analyze poems but not to critique or question, I believe this is one of the current educational flaws in our school systems. I got through high school and my first two years of school at my prior college by memorization, I've only had two teachers who wanted me to question what they were saying. In the larger scheme of things, I feel as if society has become obsessed with not trying to offend anyone and guilt, which you might be able to conclude that people are becoming afraid to challenge things.

Well, there's my rambling conclusion. Good question.

Jess

This is hilarious Lavonne!  I love it - have to show my kids....it's all about cats and dogs right now......xo M

Yes indeed Lavonne it was fun.......we even let our cat Clouseau watch it toooo !!!!!
summer smiles
silent lotus

There are three primary reasons-
1.The poem is bad, or
2. the poem is excellent,
3. the reader doesn't know how to critique.

Most of the time the lack of response is due to 1 and 3, because there are a hell of a lot more bad poems than good ones, and hell of a lot of people who just don't know how to read poetry.

I think there is only one reason.

It is because the reader is searching for something with which he/she can identify. Plenty of bad poetry gets comments. Plenty of great poetry gets comments. Our site is no different from any other site in that respect.

We comment when our particular shape of a peg meets a hole into which it can fit.

Boy, did you peg that right, el. 

Our mothers told us if you can't say anthing nice, don't say anthing at all.
Maybe plenty of great poetry gets comments, but is there plenty of great poetry?

LOL Poets always listen to their mothers


then go out and do something else.

Of good poetry, there is plenty, but great poetry is a very rare commodity. As the latter must survive changes in language and fashions, it is hard to label any contemporary poem as 'great'. Yet any poem may be 'great' in the eyes (and ears) of any particular (or peculiar) reader.

milner

I'm not so sure. Poets are socially conditioned like everybody else to let sleeping dogs lie. The thread topic already states the fact that not many of the poems get comments. 

My theory is that since most people dont' care to discuss bad poems and most poems are not good, then there isn't much commentary. Additionallly people who don't feel they know the art of poetry are loathe to comment regardless. That would just about cover it.

On the 'peg' theory, it seems unlikely that out of such a diversity of poems, a diversiity of people would rarely find their 'peg' hole.

"of good poetry there is plenty"
That's a very generous statement. I'm afrad I'm not so sanguine.

No! The thread questions  "so few people comment on the poems" not why so few poems get comments. Most of the poetry here does get commented upon and I know the several of the editors periodically go into the archives to find poems that never got comments. 

Jonathan was asking why there is such a small group of people who make the comments but there are hundreds who read the poems.

I have only recently joined, and feel I am still settling in.
After posting your first poem, the next daunting thing is commenting on others.
I feel I need to do some reading first, but it will come in time.
No one appreciates an opinionated new kid on the block. ;)

Thanks to all who have commented on mine btw.
Steve

Welcome Steve, and a good point made.

That's my opinion, anyway. :)

A difference without a difference.
You're saying its a small group of people that comment on a lot of poems. I don't know the stats. I'm new to the site, but on other forums most poems don't get commented very often. Most sites have to force people to comment before they can post their poem.

Hang around a while! We'll grow on you. We strive to be different from other forums.

I find there are good poems with bad lines, bad poems with good lines, or perhaps as little as a single good phrase.  If a poem (poorly written according to my tastes, my ear) strikes a chord with me on some level beyond the writing, I take the time to comment.  If a poem, written extraordinarily well, with perfect meter, rhyme, assonance, alliteration, whatever devices it may require to carry it to that level of poetic perfection, fails to connect, touch, move me in any way -- I find it pretty simple to pass by.  When there is something in between, for instance, a richness of language and vocabulary, but no "sense" ringing through to me (one reader that claims to be nothing more) then I might spend a comment in a poet's direction to let them know what I found, or failed to find.   

I post my work for just such feedback, what "one" reader, each by each, finds, or fails to find in the work. 

I do take offense when criticism is offered rudely, but that doesn't happen often around here. 

Most forum admins take themselves so seriously it's really hilarious. As if making a bunch of rules and striking an attitude means you know anything.  But reading poetry is an art in itself quite separate from writing it. The 'heads' of this group didn't get my sonnet which a student of mine for whom I wrote it and who had written few poems in her entire life 'got it' immediately. Others have been able to read the symbolic structure successfully. That's why I don't take the disconnect very seriously because poetry has become the property of the masses who blindly accept  a gatekeeper elite who profess to have all the secrets and standards. When I see the result of this tutelage it's totally revealing and proves that poetry is 'caviar to the general'. I'm sorry if this offends American populism but it's a fact as the reaction to my poem has demonstrated.

I don't understand why someone wold join this website only to criticize its concept. If you cannot handle a constructive evaluation because it's negative, then don't bother submitting your poem. The 'heads' of this group are very generous in the time they spend to help others by offering their opinion. They only deserve respect whether you agree with their opinion or not.

Ray, I am sorry you have taken that attitude.  There are between nine and twelve roving editors here at any given time and only one editor (me) has commented.  The comments on your poem were not very critical at all.  The members were expressing their opinions. I find it sad that you have taken this defensive stance. 

I think you take it more seriously than you admit, else why the fuss?

Remember, you are not being forced to sup with us. If you hang around a while, you will find that we are not just ordinary Americans, but a diverse group of poets and writers from around the world.

" don't understand why someone wold join this website only to criticize its concept"
Oh get off the high horse.
I posted a poem. I didn't start by criticizing 'its concept' , whatever that means. You have it backwards.

You are imputing intentions defensively. It's not an attitude I'm copping. I am the authority on what I fieel. Did you read carefully about how seriously I take it? I am reporting an overview of my experiences.
The comments on my sonnets, criticism or not, were a disconnect. Coming from self-styled poetry 'heads', it's bad enough. Calling it opinion doesn't answer.
And I am quite aware that I'm not forced.  None of these facts changes the situation as I've experienced it here and in the virtual and real American poetry culture. Yet hope springs eternal. I'm gone.

I'm not one for false modesty
but
I don't offer critique because I'm not worthy.

I know what I like but
if a poem doesn't move me
the fault may lie within my ability to understand it -
at this time.

As I said in another thread,

" I feel like the guy who walked into the wrong hotel room
  and found himself in a better party than the one he expected
  and was wondering when someone would take his Dom Perignon
  and give him an apron."


Poetry Circle is a goldmine.

" I feel like the guy who walked into the wrong hotel room
  and found himself in a better party than the one he expected
  and was wondering when someone would take his Dom Perignon
  and give him an apron."

Bravo Scott, bravo. I feel like that all the time.

Fantastic!! ;D

You're kind.
I never used that in a poem but it is and was
the way I feel surrounded by Poetry Circle talent.
It proves once again, the most talented people are the kindest people.
 

   When I finish a poem and have reread it many times I feel that it says more than prose would say, but I am not sure.  I am trying to say something beyond the obvious.  I enjoy it when someone says or writes:  Yes I see what you see, I have felt what you felt.    Then I am not alone on this planet.
There may be kinds of poems that sync with me but may also be other perfectly good kinds of poems that I do not hear or pick up on.  There are some famous poets that I do not dig.  I do not feel very comfortable suggesting changes to another poet's work and thereby bending it to my own style.  Let him/her have his/her own style.  I assume other poets have re-read their poems many times and it expresses who they are. 
     The discussion above was very interesting to me.